Elmore and Elmer Ancestors by Cousinship

Okay. Here there be dragons.

By it's very nature this family tie is...difficult. There is no paper trail to connect to here, only some DNA evidence, rough proximity and timing. This listing constitutes my best guess at the time given Autosomal and Y DNA Evidence. I've been wrong. I'll be wrong again...but I'm tired of trying to describe this family to people so I need a standard cousin listing like my other families.

Another note about the family, some of their lines are shrouded in mystery. Several family trees do not progress beyond James Walsworth Elmore. Ironically, that is where my Y match to the Elmers and Elmores comes into play.

Here is a list of my dad's most likely "Elmore and Elmer" relatives by cousinship:

****2nd cousin sharing great grandparents****
This is going to be tough. There are several men I suspect could be my dad's great grandfather. I have no Y test closer than Hezekiah Elmer born in 1686 to guide me. I do have the convenient proximity of this family in Peoria IL (and surrounding areas) in 1924 and the results of one autosomal test. The match was good on the autosomal test, but at a 3rd cousin range when I was expecting a 2nd cousin. Also the matching segments don't triangulate to any known members of any family yet.

I'm going to list the couples that might foot the bill. As a result there will be way too many people here and lots of notes. Take your pick.

Elbridge Walsworth Elmore 1850 Clinton NY.
Sarah Jane Hargraves 1844 NY
note: I think this couple is unlikely because they move back to New York putting them a bit out of reach.

Herbert Leslie "Darby" Elmore 1870 Peru Clinton NY
Elta Mabel Davidson 1880 Illinois
note: I don't see any children for this couple.

Halsey Orton Elmore 1866 NY
Etta Mae VanHouten 1868 Ill
note: multiple sons. This family was my first choice. A descendant of Halsey is a good autosomal match for my dad, but in the 3rd cousin range. That makes me think it could be one of Halsey's brothers.

James W Elmore 1864 NY
Elmira 1871 Ill
note: no children listed.

Asa Buell Elmore 1857 Clinton NY
Georgetta Craft 1867 PA.
note: the Craft family name appears quite a bit among genetic relatives of my grandfather, but these Crafts go back to Germany while the others do not.

William Ernest Elmore 1854 Clinton NY
Elizabeth Cranford 1860 Ill.
note: There may be a connection through some of Elizabeth's Harrell family to genetic relatives at 23 and me and FTDNA who have Crawford and Harrell families. It would be a very old autosomal match.


****3rd cousin sharing 2nd great grandparents****
Some of these will be missing. Without knowing which guy could be a great grandfather, I'll stick to listing the two people I feel most confident of. This would be the most likely common ancestors for the autosomal tester in the Elmore family.

James Walsworth (or Walworth) Elmore 
Birth: 1823 Essex NY
Death: 1904 Seville, Fulton, IL

Lydia Ann Hicks
1824 NY
1887 Seville, Fulton, IL



****4th cousin sharing 3rd great grandparents****

James Elmore 
birth 1798 Peru, Clinton, NY
death 1833 Peru Clinton NY

Katherine Cochrane
birth 1803 
death 1825 Peru Ny

Amizi Amaziah Hicks
birth 1788 NY
death 1870 Seville, Fulton, IL

Lydia Ann Fuller Irish
birth 1793 Peru, Clinton, NY
death 1869 Seville, Fulton, IL


****5th cousin sharing 4th great grandparents****
John Elmore
birth 1766 Northampton, Hampshire, Massachusetts
death 1840 Peru, Clinton, NY

Elizabeth Hay
birth 1778 Quebec Canada
death 1851 Peru Clinton NY

Here the Hicks, Fuller (or Irish) and Cochrane families have kind of disappeared. I've poked at them a bit but I haven't pushed them any farther.

Elizabeth Hay is the daughter of William Hay from Scotland and his wife Elizabeth Williams who may have been from the U.S. 

John Elmore is the son of Daniel Elmer and Mary Norton from Franklin Mass. Daniel is the son of Hezekiah Elmer and his wife Miriam Standish Janes of Massachusetts. That brings us to our closest Y match.

Segment Comparisons, Perspective and Inheritance

I wanted to post some examples of the differences between close relatives as they relate to more distant relatives and touch on inheritance and the luck of the draw. The reason for showing these is to give some sort of visual display of the ways in which related people match each other in different ways.

My Dad and I

I'll start with the one that I've had the most comments on at 23 and me. When people compare me to my dad they see something like this:

given the small format, you may want to click these to get a closer view. Above is my comparison to my dad. The comments I normally get from people are along the lines of "how can it be that you are exactly like your dad". 

The key is that my dad gave me half of his DNA. He built half of every chromosome I have (except the X). So I'm half identical on every chromosome. What it's easy to forget is that most chromosome browsers show you "half identical" segments...not fully identical. 

When you have a match to another person (unless they are a full sibling) you will normally only have half identical segments in common.

What I'm showing here is that for me, there is the opportunity to have a match to my paternal family on every chromosome, in every position. Even though every chromosome is covered, it's only half my DNA.

My Dad, his Maternal Half Sister and their Maternal Uncle

Okay. Time to add some complexity. Here is the broad overview of my dad, his uncle "R" and his half sister "C". This is from my dad's perspective his half sister only has DNA from their shared mother's family. His maternal uncle is his mother's brother so he has the same family in common. 

I'm going to close in on some of the chromosomes at the top to illustrate some differences. I apologize if you have trouble telling blue from green. I didn't have any choices for colors at 23 and me. My dad's uncle R is in green. Half sister C is in blue.

Things to note when looking at this. Notice that even though R, C and my dad all share the same very close family and all the same ancestors on my dad's maternal side, there are differences in how R and C match my dad. These matches represent DNA coming to my dad from his mother. 

You can see that there are places, like on chromosome 1 where sister C matches my dad but Uncle R does not. That makes sense because uncle R and my grandmother were not twins, they got different DNA from their two parents. 

You can see that there are places where uncle R matches but sister C does not like on chromosome 5 and a good chunk of chromosome 4.  Again here uncle R and my grandmother have the same DNA and my grandmother handed some segments down to my dad, but not his sister. This also makes sense because my dad and his sister are not twins. 

They both got half their mother's DNA, but the halves they got were not identical. The halves were randomly generated from all the DNA available to my grandmother.

Also notice these pictures compared to my match with my dad. Even my dad's uncle combined with his sister is not enough to recreate the DNA my grandmother gave my dad! There are maternal relatives in those white gaps that don't match his sister or his uncle.

From the Sister's Perspective

Now I want to look at these same matches from my dad's sister's perspective. The same three relatives all share the same family. The matches are similar in many ways which makes sense, but they are different in striking ways too. My dad here is in Blue and R again is in green.

Compare and contrast with the close up above. Sister C has a remarkably bigger segment in common with uncle R on chromosome 3. Where my dad has an amazing amount of white space, she is a half identical match to uncle R.

What is important there is what you don't see in my dad's close up. Remember that his mother fills up the entire chromosome for both my dad and C. It's not that he doesn't have relatives of his mother there, it's that they will most likely be different relatives than C and R have in that same spot.

For example. C and R may carry a large segment of DNA from one maternal relative while my dad carries a large segment there from another maternal relative. My grandmother had both to give, my dad got one and my aunt got the other. In really simplistic terms, maybe my dad matches his maternal great grandmother there, while C and R carry DNA from the great grandfather...or something to that effect.

What's the Point of all this?

The point is that even closely related people who share the exact same set of close ancestors and get huge amounts of DNA from those ancestors, do not get the exact same DNA from those ancestors. Uncle R is not definitive for my dad's maternal matches. Neither is sister C. Together they come very close, but still not close enough to cover all the ground. In those cracks are the exact same ancestors shared by everyone in the group, just broken up in a different way.

Somewhere, another cousin may fill the gaps in. Perhaps one of my dad's first cousins through a different aunt or uncle will hold the keys to those white areas. They will have matches to the same families but in different spots on different chromosomes.

Here is my last example image, I promise. This is from the perspective of sister C again. My dad is blue, Uncle R is green and common cousin P is purple. 

P is related to C and my dad's great grandmother Clara Beadle. Clara is uncle R's grandmother. P shares about 206 total cM with sister C, but I'm going to focus on chromosome 22 for a minute because it's a perfect illustration. 

Uncle R in green overlaps my dad a little there in blue. Both do not overlap with P, all are related to Clara Beadle in some way but that doesn't mean they will always match each other where P does because they all got different DNA from the Beadle family. Each of these matches could represent Beadle DNA. P cannot be the definitive check for Beadle DNA because he doesn't cover enough ground. 

Here is what I mean by P can't be definitive for Beadles in my family:

P shares 206cM on 8 segments with sister C.

P shares 156cM on 6 segments with my dad.

P shares 145cM on 10 segments with uncle R.

The Beadle family is about 1/4th of uncle R's DNA and yet P shares the lowest amount of DNA in total with R! My grandmother has more in common with P and handed more of those common segments to her children C and my dad. Uncle R is not less related to his Beadle grandmother than his sister was, he just got different DNA from her!

Updated Y Results and a Psychological Shift

Although you have to question your mental health when reviewing how much time and effort you put into genealogy, I have not been more aware of my own perception change in a long time. Today, the results for my Elmer Y DNA recruit down the Ed2 line were revised. I wrote about his results and my interpretation of them last time.

Today, while comparing the results for another Elmer tester, I noticed a difference in the genetic distance from my recruit to me. Where there was a GD of 2, now there was 1.

His odd mutation at GATA-H4 had been wiped away and the more standard value of 10 put in place of his 9.

So now he shared the non-modal value of 10 there like the other Elmers and I, but he still carries my mutation of 29 at DYS449.

All of that means that I have my closest ever Y match. My interpretation of his results discounted his GATA-H4 value, because it was so different from the others. So really, nothing has changed about the match in my eyes. It's still my closest match because of that shared mutation at DYS449. I feel it is the most likely candidate for a paternal line for my branch of the Thompson family. It's still my best bridge between the Elmore family in Illinois and Edward Elmer in connecticut.

Psychologically though, over the course of the day, my perception has changed about the match quite a bit. In my own mind it went from the most likely match to an absolute match. Dangerous ground for a person who is most often wrong, but still there it is.

Now this minor change has me thinking the autosomal match to the Elmore family is better than I thought. More solid. Like the one paternal segment and unknown second segment in that ATDNA match are, all of the sudden, an excellent sign post rather than a vague possibility. Even though it really says nothing about those results at all, it has me feeling degrees more hopeful that I've done this bit right and my gamble has paid off.

Coming down from my high, this Y match is not definitive for the autosomal match. I would need a Y from a closer Elmore relative to triangulate with or at least one more autosomal test from a related Elmore to triangulate that.

Still though, optimistically, I feel certain that this Y result means I am related to Hezekiah Elmer 1686, son of Edward Elmer and Rebecca Fitch. Certainty is not something I'm used to.

A New Year and Some Encouraging Results

The Y results are in for our last Elmer Y recruit. These are the results I was waiting for in my last post about Elmer and Elmore autosomal results.

The autosomal results for this firs contact were "no match". Not matching is hard to gauge because it's possible for genetic relatives to not match each other at all. When you don't match a close relative that can be a red flag, but not matching someone who shares a relative in the 1700s is more likley.

I described the layers of expectation for the Y results like this:

In layers of expectations, I would expect them to be a good match to the other tested Elmer branches. I would hope that they might share one of my variations from the Elmer "norm".

You better believe that I was holding my breath looking at that Y match. He was definitely a good match to the group but he was still two markers off from me! At that point, my heart kind of sank. All the Elmers who have tested beyond the first twelve are a minimum of two away from me and it's the same two every time.

I carry a one off mutation at DYS449 and DYS567. FTDNA lists those two places as likely mutations at 37 STRs for people who are related, but their stipulation is that they also share a surname. I do not share a surname.

I was stunned though to find that the Elmer I suspect is on my Y line shares my mutation at DYS449. He mismatches me in two spots and he mismatches the other Elmers in two spots (one of them being the spot that matches me).

Time for some visuals. First up is the Y 12. I've got the men organized by their apparent or documented branch of the Elmer family through Edward Elmer's sons John, Edward2 and Samuel. I put myself with L (gray bar near bottom) in the Ed2 category. Fairly similar at 12 we have most of the telltale cumberland markers from the cumberland B modal (green bar at bottom). The modal for the larger group in Z18 is the green bar above.

Two of the documented John lines have some interesting mutations on normally slow moving values.

In the second set, everyone has the telltale cumberland B 458.2. What grabbed me is that where I expected a mismatch on DYS449 like all the other Elmers and the modal for cumberland and the modal for Z18, I now have a match! Both L and I are 29 at DYS449.  So L matches me where the others don't. What is odd here is that L has a mismatch with me because he's broken away from all the Elmers on GATA-H4 which is usually a more stable STR. So where he mismatches me here..he mismatches everyone.

Last set. Again an odd break away for the "John" line Elmers on some slow moving values and they have also moved away from cumberland and Z18. The big orange 18 is me. Here I mismatch all the Elmers still along with the Cumberland and Z18 modals. The final DYS463 value is included to show those that have tested for it. We have one John, one Samuel and if I can be counted one Edward2 showing a 23 there against type for both cumberland and Z18.

One thing I want to note is that the John group seems to be wild. They mutate away from each other. They have standard Elmer markers in common but at 37 they don't seem to have some "John" pattern.

Meanwhile the Samuel group is super super stable. They form the core group to compare others to. They have the most STRs in common with everyone. 

The Edward2 group, well...

I've spent a lot of years with my results, trying to gain value from what I have. I feel like I've earned some good returns. This is not perfect, but if my suspicions are correct, L and I meet up at Hezekiah Elmer born 1686 the son of Edward Elmer and Rebecca Fitch and grandson of Edward Elmer. 

There is a lot of time there to gather mutations and the "John" group shows how much variation there can be. I am most interested though in where L and I are similar. Not just wildly mutating by ourselves, we have a mutation from the "norm" in common.

L could have randomly gotten the 29 at DYS449, but I'm going to take it anyway. I didn't randomly recruit L. I picked him because I suspected he and I were on the same line and I was hoping he would share one of my variants from the other Elmers... and he does. That would mean that Hezekiah or Edward2 is the originator of our 29 there. My Elmer mismatch at DYS576 and L's really odd mismatch at GATA-H4 would then be marks of our individual lines at some point after that.

I was concerned about trying to match up with someone who was that far back. There isn't a lot of time between Edward1 and Hezekiah. Mutations can happen anywhere at any time, but still only a couple of generations from the source and I'm hoping for a common STR that is not shared by the majority of Elmers! The thing is...I got it. I actually got it.

He has one of my mutations but not the other, he's part way there, just like someone who shared a very old common ancestor with me.

One way to feel better about it would be to get another person related to Hezekiah tested to see if they also carry the 29. What if they did not though? Mutation is not a one way street. G in the "John" Elmers has mutated back to the old Z18 modal twice! A member of the Hezekiah branch might drop the 29 in favor of some other value.

Another way would be upgrading both L and I to 67 and 111 to see if we maintain the closeness.

Yet a third way, and the one I might save up my pennies for, is to run both of us through Big Y to see which SNPs we share and how they layer with other Elmers who have done it.

Leaving off on a hopeful note. I have a good autosomal result from my targeted Elmore family and a nice Y match on their line back to Edward Elmer. I may even have identified one STR that we could assign to an ancestor.  

That is not too shabby.

Elmer and Elmore Autosomal Results and More Waiting

In the past I've approached the Elmers as a cross over family. I've worked for a few years under the assumption that my Thompsons were likely crossed over with the Elmer family in New Jersey in the 1700s. Since the division in my Thompson family is much closer to home, I got serious about where the Elmers were in 1924 (the year before my grandfather was born) and in the 1890s when my great grandfather was born.

Given the autosomal and Y DNA evidence, either my grandfather or my great grandfather would be genetically unrelated to the Thompsons. This being the case then either Ray Thompson was adopted into the Thompson family (since there is no autosomal match to his brother at all) or my grandfather is not Ray's son (since we do match my grandfather's maternal Finks family).

I found several  candidate families of Elmers and Elmores. Some were immediate dead ends and I couldn't follow their paper trails. Others played out pretty well. One of my criteria is that the family should (to everyone's best knowledge) meet up with Edward Elmer who came over on the Lyon and was one of the founders of Hartford Connecticut.

The Most Apparent Possibilities

Targeting my great grandfather as the NPE left me with families that were likely in the Madison Indiana area in the late 1890s. So looking for men born around 1870 who carried the name Elmore or Elmer in Indiana.

I came up with several men born in the 1870s.

• Edgar Elmore born 1871 son of Permelia Cahom. Dead end.
• William Elmore son of Henry Clay Elmore and Lydia Nolen - Runs to Mathias Elmore from New, Garden Guilford NC. Some trees connect him to the New Jersey Elmer family, others to Peter Elmore from Virginia.
• Edward Elmer 1875 Indiana: Dead End, lived in Fall Creek, Madison IN in 1900. 
• Edward Elmore 1878 Indiana son of  Albert Elmore and Sarah Jay - runs to Elmores from England in the 1740s. 

Targeting my grandfather as the NPE left me with families from either Peoria Illinois or Northern Lower Michigan. His Finks family moves around quite a bit from 1924 - 25. That is a lot of ground to cover.

• Athel Elmore son of Robert Elmore and Robert Talley. Runs back to Peter Elmore from Virginia. Athel lives right in Peoria, his family looks very familiar because of all our genetic matches in Kentucky.
• Vardis Elmore son of Henry Clay and Surdelia Griffin or Griffis runs back to Peter Elmore from Virginia. 
• The many sons of James Walworth Elmore  who moves to Peoria Illinois from Peru New York. Multiple possibilities in Peoria stemming from James. Family tree points to Edward Elmer of connecticut.
• Forrest Elmer from Michigan son of Myron Elmer and Theresa Martin. This line also runs through New York meeting up with the line of James Walworth Elmore at Edward Elmer's grandson Hezekiah from his son Edward 2. 

Lots and lots of ground to cover. As a Thompson, I thought we were an enormous task, who knew there were so many Elmers and Elmores running around.

Narrowing things down 

The Thompsons are great people and they would probably adopt in the 1800s. Ida Williamson's dad was bound out as a child and Ida grew up with half siblings from her mother's side, so the family seems to blend well. Ray could really be adopted, but I have no evidence for that.

The odd circumstances surrounding my grandfather's birth and location and the Finks family moves make me think it's more likely that my grandfather is the NPE (even though he looks like his dad I've been told).

Focusing then on my grandfather, I have two good leads that go back to Edward Elmer in their trees. I cannot say that Peter Elmore is unrelated but I've seen (only one) Y DNA signature assigned to him and it does not match the Edward Elmer line. So the focus now is on James Walworth Elmore and Forrest Elmer. 

Nicely they fit in with the direction of the Edward Elmer research group which has been actively recruiting men with the goal of defining the various branches of Edward's sons. Both men fall down the line of Edward's son Edward2. With testers from John Elmer and Samuel Elmer already on the books, Edward2 is wide open. 

Now it's time to recruit male descendants of these men to see which match me the closest on the Y.

Beginning with Forrest Elmer, cold calling living descendants gave only two men. One refused testing and the other was adopted and could not help us.

Moving on the James W Elmore, I focused on his son Halsey because he had the most male descendants in Peoria. Cold calling living Elmore men produced two contacts, both refused to answer whether they would test or not, so dead end there.

Zero good contacts

Taking a different track, we started contacting people who were directly related to these two families on Ancestry.com. Our thought was that people on Ancestry already had some interest in family history and they would have seen lots of ads for DNA testing so it would not be alien to them. 

This produced two contacts. 

First, a man who is a few generations back and over from Forrest Elmer who had already had autosomal testing done AND he is an Elmer so his Y line could be expected to meet up with others in the group (specifically the family of Halsey Elmore) at Hezekiah Elmer and then Edward 2. 

Second a woman who was related to Halsey Elmore (a second great granddaughter) who was willing to run an autosomal test. 

Results

Autosomal analysis for the First contact was immediate. No matches to anyone in the group, including my dad. If we were related to Forrest Elmer, the autosomal results would have met up in 1792 with Obed Clyde Elmer. A person close enough that you could expect some results. No match doesn't say a whole lot, other than that we share no segments in common. We do have maternal cousins in that date range who do show up in our genetic results so if there was a relationship, I would expect to see something, but that does not have to be the case. 

YDNA analysis is in the works for the First contact. Although the test was returned in October, issues at FTDNA are keeping the results delayed, so we have no idea yet whether this contact is a good Y match for the group let alone my family. 

In layers of expectations, I would expect them to be a good match to the other tested Elmer branches. I would hope that they might share one of my variations from the Elmer "norm".

So we wait.

Autosomal analysis for the Second contact took a long..long time. We went through Ancestry.com which was a first for me. Once the results were in, we uploaded to Gedmatch.com for comparison and the second contact was an autosomal match to my dad on two segments. 

In layers of expectations, hoping to find a match to Halsey Elmore as my dad's possible great grandfather and this match's second great grandfather, I would think there would be some autosomal match at all. Which there was. 

I would expect that the match would be fairly "large" maybe three or four segments and a total above 50cM. 

The match was "big" for my dad. Two segments and in the mid 30s for total cM. A match that appears near the top of his list at Gedmatch certainly, but more in line with matches who share his third great grandparents rather than a second great grandparent type of match. That could mean that my target family is a bit off and the match is more likely with one of Halsey's brothers.

I would hope that all the segments would be categorized as "Paternal" meaning they were overlapped but did not match a known maternal relative.

One of the segments was definitely paternal, matching with a single family from Butler PA (a bit disturbing), but the other was unknown. Managing to fall exactly in the 15 or so cM between two maternal matches. It falls on one of two unknown sides, neither of which I have family trees for. 

So there is a connection, but there is the opportunity that the second contact could be related to both sides of my dad's family (as several two segment matches are). The results are hopeful and pointing in the right direction, but ambiguous and a bit fuzzy around the edges.

Autosomal DNA segment matching

Here is a quick and dirty picture of how I'm doing autosomal segment mapping. Forgive the tools. I'm using 23 and me because the bulk of my easily gathered data is there. I'm also using Gedmatch for an easy feature. I'm trying to get across a concept on this one.

Three people here. T, C and P.

C is the person I'm helping. They are the half sister of T. We start by figuring out our known people.

My end goal is to identify my C's unknown paternal family. Her closest maternal relative is T. I want to use T to sort matches.

This is basically an "In Common With" or "One or Both Kits" match. The question this answers is "Who matches both these kits". I'm checking T's half sister against him to determine their maternal side. This is the first question to ask about any match. Where do they fit and who do they match with.

P is going to be our unknown Person here. P is most likely a very good maternal match for C. Because C is my T's half sister, I am using their relationship as the known maternal relationship for C.

The next step is to see how P matches each person.

For that I'm switching back over to 23 and me. This is for a visual representation. You can use any tool for this. A spreadsheet would do something similar, but I want a visual representation. You could also check these kits individually at gedmatch to see where the segments were and then compare them against each other.

I'm going for simplicity here to illustrate a concept.

The key to this visual is that I can check P against both T and C. Yes I know they match each other but I want to know "how". With this tool (or a one to one comparison) I can see the match from P's perspective as well as C's. How does P match each person in this triangle?

I can visualize P vs C and P vs T.  T is in green and C is in blue. You can see that P matches both my T and C in many positions on many segments. There are lots of overlaps. Since T and C's relationship is known, those are most likely maternal positions.

P also matches C by herself sometimes though. You can see that where the little blue segments stand alone on chromosome 17 and 22.

Now for the counter check. I need to see if my C matches T in the same spots that she matches with P.

You can see here that C matches T on many segments. T is green and P is blue. For a lot of those segments P's match overlaps and matches the segment shared with T. Now I can look at those segments and assign them to C's and T's shared maternal family. The same segment matches all three people.

What about those little blue segments that don't overlap and match with T? Those are anyone's guess.

• They could be great leads to my C's paternal family. P may be related to C in more than one way. If I can identify P's match on those segments as paternal then P's family tree might be a good resource to finding C's unknown paternal family.
• They could be maternal matches that T just didn't inherit and outline a longer maternal segment for C. In that case it would be good to solidly identify them as maternal (using other maternal relatives).
• If they're small enough, they might be noise.

What if T had overlapped on those little blue segments but not matched?

It's most likely then, if a known maternal relative like T overlapped but did not match, that I have identified segments that show P's relationship to C's paternal family. P's family tree could then be a resource to find C's paternal unknown. 

As it stands, those segments warrant further investigation to see if I can get them assigned to a side of C's family. P is a "mostly" maternal match for C, with a few unassigned segments to be sorted out.

Seelye Ancestors

I may have sent you here because you've had genetic testing at 23 and me, FTDNA or AncestryDNA and overlap and match on a segment with a known relative of Lloyd Seelye or his parents.

It's also possible that you find yourself on this page because you are in some as yet, unknown way, related to my grandmother Elizabeth Seelye through shared DNA segments.

Because either of those is a good possibility, this is a choose your own adventure. If you rolled the genetic dice and got Lloyd Seelye or his mom Clara Beadle as genetic links, then this page is all you're going to need. If you rolled Elizabeth Seelye or "maternal relative" for my dad, then this page is relevant to you and I'll provide a link to another page that you should look at as well for the Campbell family.

Here is my dad's list of ancestors by cousinship:

****2nd cousin sharing great grandparents****

McKendree Thomas Seelye
Birth 10 Nov 1858 in Hadley, Lapeer, Michigan, United States
Death 19 Jul 1953 in Montrose, Gennessee, Michigan, United States

Clara Elizabeth Beadle
Birth 1 Apr 1864 in Ypsilanti, Washtenaw, Michigan, United States
Death 3 Jul 1925 in Lum, Lapeer, Michigan, United States



****3rd cousin sharing 2nd great grandparents****

Thomas Seelye
Birth 4 Feb 1821 in Westmoreland, Oneida Co., New York
Death 3 Jan 1895 in Ann Arbor, Washtenaw Co., Michigan

Naomi Dorothea Sutherland
Birth 7 Sep 1822 in Cambria, Niagara, New York, United States
Death 10 Dec 1904 in Ann Arbor, Washtenaw Co., Michigan

Myron Henry Beadle
Birth 30 Nov 1838 in Pennsylvania, United States
Death 18 Jan 1915 in Unadilla, Livingston, Michigan, United States

Ellen Mariah Hathaway
Birth 11 Sep 1843 in York, Washtenaw, Michigan, United States
Death 3 Sep 1923 in Unadilla, Livingston, Michigan, United States



****4th cousin sharing 3rd great grandparents****

Cornelius Seeley
Birth 3 Sep 1796 in Westmoreland, Oneida, New York, USA
Death 4 Mar 1866 in Westmoreland, Oneida, New York, USA

Rachel Smith
Birth 1 Oct 1800 in New York, United States
Death 18 Oct 1843 in Ohio, United States

Andrew Sutherland
Birth 3 Sep 1776 in Sutherland Falls, Rutland, Vermont, United States
Death 27 Feb 1836 in Cambria, Niagara, New York, United States

Naomi Annie Cooley
Birth 6 Oct 1788 in Pittsford, Rutland, Vermont, United States
Death 15 Dec 1870 in Romeo, Macomb, Michigan, United States

Frederick Beadle
Birth 22 Apr 1813 in New York, United States
Death 13 Mar 1872 in Washtenaw, Michigan, United States

Christina Scoby
Birth abt 1820 in New York, United States
Death 1862 in Wheatland Center, Hillsdale, Michigan, United States

Isaac Baldwin Hathaway
Birth 23 Apr 1817 in of, Wayne, New York, United States
Death 21 Dec 1906 in Parma, Jackson, Michigan, United States

Eliza Ann Morey
Birth 1819 in Milton, Saratoga County, New York
Death 1846 in Pittsfield, Washtenaw, Michigan, United States


****5th cousin sharing 4th great grandparents****

Daniel Seeley
Birth 1 Jul 1763 in Deer Park, Orange, New York, United States
Death 29 May 1840 in Westmoreland, Oneida, New York, United States

Phoebe Fulkerson
Birth 20 Feb 1768 in Westmoreland, Oneida, New York, United States
Death 13 May 1803 in Westmoreland, Oneida, New York, United States

Parents of Rachel Smith (pos Thomas Smith and "Betts")

Peter Sutherland
Birth 1756-02-20  Bangall, Dutchess, New York, USA
Death 1828-05-00  Sutherland Falls, Rutland, Vermont, USA


Carol Bush
Birth 1754 in Sutherland Falls, Rutland, Vermont, USA

Benjamin Cooley
Birth 30 Apr 1747 in Greenwich, Hampshire, Massachusetts, United States
Death 27 February 1810 in Pittsford, Rutland, Vermont, United States

Ruth Beach
Birth 11 Jan 1756 in Morristown, Morris, New Jersey, United States
Death 5 Sep 1825 in Pittsford, Rutland, Vermont, United States

Parents of Frederick Beadle born 1813 NY

Parents of Christina Scoby born 1820 NY

ISAAC Hathaway
Birth 19 Mar 1777 in Rockaway, Morris, New Jersey, United States
Death 17 Feb 1848 in York, Washtenaw, Michigan, United States

Mary Heddon
Birth 27 Jan 1778 in Rockaway, Morris, New Jersey, United States
Death 14 Aug 1849 in Washtenaw, Michigan, United States

Parents of Eliza Ann Morey born 1819 Ulster NY

For Broader Maternal Genetic matches to my dad see the Campbell Ancestors list.