This is the Bermuda triangle of family names. I need to make this note for myself because it can easily become really confusing.
I was researching John B Hollingsworth and family (Hollingsworths Next Door) and it turns out that they bulk of their family moved from Butler PA to Grant county IN, not Madison county. John B Hollingsworth is in Madison county, down the way from Levi Thompson in 1860 but his family group is in Grant..not very far from where he lived in Van Buren, Madison, IN.
It's good to keep in mind here that there are other Hollingsworths roaming this part of Indiana at this time that came from the Carolinas. I imagine they are distantly related.
I decided to look for Thompsons in Grant in 1860 to see if maybe Levi's home group of Thompsons would magically be there. Of course part of my matching the Grant Hollingsworths with the Butler PA Hollingsworths and John B Hollingsworth was that I could follow the entire family from Butler in 1850 to Grant in 1860. It would be hard to know if any of the Grant Thompsons belong to Levi because I can't find him in 1850.
Still I tried, and found a few that were interesting. One of them was way to young to be a parent of any sort, but still of interest. Robert Thompson is in Grant in 1860, he is 40 years old, born in 1820 in Pennsylvania. He is in a household with a woman listed as Ann Kersy who was born around 1835 in Vir..which is I'm sure Virginia, which reminded me of all the Kerseys I looked up while research the Coates family from Butler PA. I've run into genetic matches for my father who have Kerseys and Coates in their families and I spent a bit of time looking at them.
Robert is single when he is listed in the draft records for the Civil War. I don't have much information on him but he may be worth looking up and maybe there is some connection with the Kerseys that is worth putting together. Since he's born in 1820 it's possible he would appear in an 1840 and 1850 census. I could also try to find Ann Kers(e)y from Virginia.
Sorting out the Puzzle Pieces in My Big Messy Family
Showing posts with label Hollingsworth. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Hollingsworth. Show all posts
Tuesday, January 1, 2013
Sunday, September 16, 2012
Set in Stone
Following up on the stonemasons that live around Levi in the 1860 Census, I found John B. Hollingsworth from Butler Pennsylvania living with a Kelso Family. He is listed under a "Smith" Kelso who is also a stonecutter. Smith Kelso actually is Smith Kelsay and is part of the Kelsay family that moves to Indiana from Ohio. I believe Smith may be Robert's much younger brother...or his son. In which case he would have been born before his parents were married.
Robert Kelsay (born around 1809 in VA) the head of the family is listed as a farmer in 1860. In 1850 when there is no Levi Thompson or John B Hollingsworth in Van Buren Indiana, Robert Kelsay is listed as a stonemason. His wife Hannah is from Pennsylvania. In family trees is shows that they were married in 1843 in Paris Ohio and gives Hannah's name as Hannah Minyoung.
Robert Kelsay has a son named Albert Kelsay. Alberts always get my attention. I attempted to find a connection for Hannah Minyoung in Pennsylvania, but couldn't find any.
At a minimum, I think this is the source for Levi's tombstone manufacturing after the civil war. It would seem to me that he and John B. Hollingsworth picked up the skill after they moved to Indiana and lived with or near Robert Kelsay and family.
Whether there is some further connection between these people, I don't know.
I was able to follow up on the Hollingsworths a bit more. John B. Hollingsworth's mother was Lucinda Burgess, in family trees she is shown as being born in Pittsburgh. John B's father William Hollingsworth born 1811 is shown in family trees to be from Chester county PA. They have a daughter Isabella who was born in 1848 and a son Gilmore who was born in 1838.
Of course, as I've probably mentioned before when looking at the John Thompson and Jane Stevenson, the Bayer family and other Thompsons all from North Butler...the name Isabella seems to repeat. The Thompsons, Bayers and Hollingsworths all seem to have Isabellas and sometimes multiple generations of them.
It's too bad Levi didn't have an Isabella in his mix of children. That would be an awesome pattern match.
Robert Kelsay (born around 1809 in VA) the head of the family is listed as a farmer in 1860. In 1850 when there is no Levi Thompson or John B Hollingsworth in Van Buren Indiana, Robert Kelsay is listed as a stonemason. His wife Hannah is from Pennsylvania. In family trees is shows that they were married in 1843 in Paris Ohio and gives Hannah's name as Hannah Minyoung.
Robert Kelsay has a son named Albert Kelsay. Alberts always get my attention. I attempted to find a connection for Hannah Minyoung in Pennsylvania, but couldn't find any.
At a minimum, I think this is the source for Levi's tombstone manufacturing after the civil war. It would seem to me that he and John B. Hollingsworth picked up the skill after they moved to Indiana and lived with or near Robert Kelsay and family.
Whether there is some further connection between these people, I don't know.
I was able to follow up on the Hollingsworths a bit more. John B. Hollingsworth's mother was Lucinda Burgess, in family trees she is shown as being born in Pittsburgh. John B's father William Hollingsworth born 1811 is shown in family trees to be from Chester county PA. They have a daughter Isabella who was born in 1848 and a son Gilmore who was born in 1838.
Of course, as I've probably mentioned before when looking at the John Thompson and Jane Stevenson, the Bayer family and other Thompsons all from North Butler...the name Isabella seems to repeat. The Thompsons, Bayers and Hollingsworths all seem to have Isabellas and sometimes multiple generations of them.
It's too bad Levi didn't have an Isabella in his mix of children. That would be an awesome pattern match.
Saturday, August 25, 2012
John Bayer 1782 Butler PA
I attempted some follow up on the Thompson children living with John Bayer born 1782 in Ireland. These are further Thompsons who live near John B Hollingsworth in Butler PA.
There are multiple names in North Butler at the time that seem like I might be looking at an extended family. John Bayer has a wife named Isabelle in the census. His daughter is named Margaret B Bayer born 1828. The Thompsons living with him are John born 1833, Mary born 1835 and Isabelle the youngest.
Also in North Butler is a woman named Margaret Thompson born in the 1760s in Ireland with another woman named Isabelle Thompson who is in her 50s living with her. That's a lot of Isabelles and Margarets between these two families and it makes me suspect some sort of relationship. It also makes me suspect some missing male Thompsons.
It's possibly of interest that in the same 1850 census Jane (Stevenson) Thompson (b 1781) is living with her adult son David William Thompson and Nathaniel S Thompson. Her husband John Thompson having died in the 1840s. Jane would be about 69 here, which is one reason I doubt she could be the mother of Levi Thompson, she would have been 53 when he was born in 1834. So there is at least one missing male Thompson that I know of.
In at least one family tree for John Thompson and Jane Stevenson I see a daughter named Isabella. In all the trees I have John Thompson is listed as being born around 1770 which would make him about 10 years older than Jane Stevenson. If I make some conjectures given the relative ages of people, it seems like John and Jane have at least one child born around 1802 (Samuel). The Isabell listed with Margaret is in her 50s (I'll have to recheck the record). That would put her birth date around 1800. This could be John's child..possibly an oldest daughter. Margaret born in the 1760s could be a sibling to John..she doesn't seem old enough to be a parent, but then the 1770 date for John's birth may be a best guess.
They could be totally unrelated Thompsons in the same town. I've seen that enough.
I couldn't track the Bayer family any further than this single census because I'm not sure their name is spelled correctly..in 1840 there are Barrs, Bears and Berrs in Butler.. and with one daughter of marrying age and parents near their 70s, they just may not exist as a unit beyond this point. "John" and "Mary" Thompsons will be hard to track. Isabelle offers the best hope because of her relatively young age and fairly unique name.
Also in this family, John Thompson living with John Bayer would have to BE Levi Thompson. What I'm really hoping for here is sort of what I found with my Williamsons. If I looked at the Census That listed Henry Williamson with his mother and no father, a few houses away was his grandfather..sitting there the whole time. I can't say with a certainty who his father was but I have a few candidates among the Williamson men who all died around the same time that would fit well.
Similarly Levi and his parents may just fall into a record gap I can't get past. Not all the children of these Thompson patriarchs are known or documented, but if I can jump over is parents to find his grandparents (like I did with Henry Williamson), I might get a lot closer to piecing this together and maybe with the help of genetics, work it the other way around.
It's possible that these people who live near John B. Hollingsworth represent a larger family we're tied to. It's a funny quirk of being a Thompson that even here when I've got a very narrow search I turn up at least two totally separate Thompson families. Still it gives me a bit of hope to think that I may be looking at aunts, uncles, cousins or if I'm really lucky, grandparents for Levi.
There are multiple names in North Butler at the time that seem like I might be looking at an extended family. John Bayer has a wife named Isabelle in the census. His daughter is named Margaret B Bayer born 1828. The Thompsons living with him are John born 1833, Mary born 1835 and Isabelle the youngest.
Also in North Butler is a woman named Margaret Thompson born in the 1760s in Ireland with another woman named Isabelle Thompson who is in her 50s living with her. That's a lot of Isabelles and Margarets between these two families and it makes me suspect some sort of relationship. It also makes me suspect some missing male Thompsons.
It's possibly of interest that in the same 1850 census Jane (Stevenson) Thompson (b 1781) is living with her adult son David William Thompson and Nathaniel S Thompson. Her husband John Thompson having died in the 1840s. Jane would be about 69 here, which is one reason I doubt she could be the mother of Levi Thompson, she would have been 53 when he was born in 1834. So there is at least one missing male Thompson that I know of.
In at least one family tree for John Thompson and Jane Stevenson I see a daughter named Isabella. In all the trees I have John Thompson is listed as being born around 1770 which would make him about 10 years older than Jane Stevenson. If I make some conjectures given the relative ages of people, it seems like John and Jane have at least one child born around 1802 (Samuel). The Isabell listed with Margaret is in her 50s (I'll have to recheck the record). That would put her birth date around 1800. This could be John's child..possibly an oldest daughter. Margaret born in the 1760s could be a sibling to John..she doesn't seem old enough to be a parent, but then the 1770 date for John's birth may be a best guess.
They could be totally unrelated Thompsons in the same town. I've seen that enough.
I couldn't track the Bayer family any further than this single census because I'm not sure their name is spelled correctly..in 1840 there are Barrs, Bears and Berrs in Butler.. and with one daughter of marrying age and parents near their 70s, they just may not exist as a unit beyond this point. "John" and "Mary" Thompsons will be hard to track. Isabelle offers the best hope because of her relatively young age and fairly unique name.
Also in this family, John Thompson living with John Bayer would have to BE Levi Thompson. What I'm really hoping for here is sort of what I found with my Williamsons. If I looked at the Census That listed Henry Williamson with his mother and no father, a few houses away was his grandfather..sitting there the whole time. I can't say with a certainty who his father was but I have a few candidates among the Williamson men who all died around the same time that would fit well.
Similarly Levi and his parents may just fall into a record gap I can't get past. Not all the children of these Thompson patriarchs are known or documented, but if I can jump over is parents to find his grandparents (like I did with Henry Williamson), I might get a lot closer to piecing this together and maybe with the help of genetics, work it the other way around.
It's possible that these people who live near John B. Hollingsworth represent a larger family we're tied to. It's a funny quirk of being a Thompson that even here when I've got a very narrow search I turn up at least two totally separate Thompson families. Still it gives me a bit of hope to think that I may be looking at aunts, uncles, cousins or if I'm really lucky, grandparents for Levi.
Sunday, August 19, 2012
Hollingsworths Next Door
With our paternity in question and just more confusion in the world of DNA, I decided to go back and look at the people around Levi again. I'm sure I've noted in the past that the person living next door to Levi in Van Buren Indiana in 1860 is a Stonemason and wondered openly if that is where Levi got his start in that trade. This time I looked more closely at the people involved. There are actually two stone masons living next door to Levi and interestingly enough, one of them is a Hollingsworth from Pennsylvania.
That name always gets my attention so I decided to follow up on him. He is around the same age as Levi, living in the same area, also with a seemingly unrelated family (Levi is living with the Brodericks) and he's from Pennsylvania. Worth looking into.
It turns out he is not alone. The rest of his family is in Fairmount, Grant, Indiana. Just a few miles away from the Alexandria area. In 1870 John B. Hollingsworth ends up living in Grant with his parents (nice) and just like Levi he seems to forget where he was born. Close families often travel together, so I thought I would look through Grant Indiana for some Thompsons.
There are two families of Thompsons I've found so far. One is the family of a James Thompson who lives there in 1850 as well and is from Virginia. The other is the family of Samuel R. Thompson who is a brother of Howell D. Thompson who is well remembered in the history of Madison County Indiana. Howell D. Thompson's father John L. Thompson lives in Randolph Indiana and is from York Pennsylvania. (He is also a suspect. His wife dies in 1839. I haven't gotten a good 1850 record for him, Howell D is living separately in Pendelton Indiana in 1850.)
Neither Samuel R. or James from VA shows a Levi or even a male child of a similar age, so...darn. Of course I've already been through Grant County in the past and didn't find Levi there, but it's worth a try.
Next I stepped back in time to 1850 to see where the Hollingsworths were and who lived around them. With John B. Hollingsworth's whole family for reference, he was actually pretty easy to find. In North Butler, Butler County, Pennsylvania.
Hold the phone! Things I know about Levi Thompson, he's born in Butler County Pennsylvania and moves to Madison Indiana sometime before 1855. He is a farmer but after the war becomes a stonemason or Tombstone manufacturer.
Things I now know about John B. Hollingsworth, he's born in Butler County Pennsylvania and moves to Madison Indiana sometime before 1860. He's a stonemason. Now that is a bit weird.
I started to wonder about a lot of things, like why are these guys so similar? How is it that I can find John B. Hollingsworth, practically a clone of Levi Thompson (or maybe the other way around) but I can't find Levi? What kind of ninja is Levi Thompson?
Well, then my next step was to go through the 1850 census in North Butler, Butler Pennsylvania and look for Thompsons..which I would expect to find because Butler PA is awful with Thompsons. I find three families of Thompsons.
One family consists of several Thompson children living with a Bayer or Boyer family. No Levi Thompsons. The second is a family of Thompsons who is lead by a man listed as Carles (there is no H) and his wife. Carles is from Massachusetts his wife is from Vermont. Again, No Levi Thompsons. The other Thompson family is one I've seen before. It's Jane (Stephenson/Stevenson) Thompson and her son David and Nathaniel Stevenson Thompson. Their father John Thompson is dead. He is sometimes linked with John, James and Matthew threesome of brothers who settle in Center and Franklin, Butler PA. No Levi Thompsons.
Again here, I've already been through the Butler censuses for 1850 and didn't see Levi Thompson then either so no big surprise there. Given our DNA results, I thought maybe I should do a search for males who were not Thompsons but were about the right age and came up with a laundry list of 15 year olds in North Butler.
Of course the Hollingsworths were there, but also scattered around the Stephenson Thompsons were just plain old Stephensons. The Stephenson Thompsons are living in a cluster of Stephensons in 1850. Nathaniel Stevenson Thompson is named after Jane Thompson's father Nathaniel Stevenson who is a pioneer from Scotland I believe. Jane and her sons must have been living around what I imagine is her sibling's family. Among these Stephenson's there was one record that was interesting. A male child listed as (something) N. Stephenson at the end of a list of Stephensons. I believe he is not a direct descendant of the head of household because he is listed after the entire family down to a 2 year old (which is what I see often with unrelated children). Although I'm sure I'm imagining it, the first letter looked a lot like an L to me.
I was at the point that I was convincing myself it was an L I was seeing and that the census taker had mislabeled that last boy as a Stephenson when he obviously was L. N. Thompson. Then I conjectured that Levi Thompson was obviously this L. N. Thompson the son of John Thompson and Jane Stephenson and that he left Pennsylvania with a friend named John B. Hollingsworth and moved to Madison Indiana with him. That was when I realized that it is way too easy to assign too much meaning to these coincidences.
Still, even without that last bit of fever dream, there are an awful lot of similarities with these two men John B. Hollingsworth and Levi Thompson with their proximity in 1860 and the same birthplace and later the same occupation. I think it will be worth further investigation.
That name always gets my attention so I decided to follow up on him. He is around the same age as Levi, living in the same area, also with a seemingly unrelated family (Levi is living with the Brodericks) and he's from Pennsylvania. Worth looking into.
It turns out he is not alone. The rest of his family is in Fairmount, Grant, Indiana. Just a few miles away from the Alexandria area. In 1870 John B. Hollingsworth ends up living in Grant with his parents (nice) and just like Levi he seems to forget where he was born. Close families often travel together, so I thought I would look through Grant Indiana for some Thompsons.
There are two families of Thompsons I've found so far. One is the family of a James Thompson who lives there in 1850 as well and is from Virginia. The other is the family of Samuel R. Thompson who is a brother of Howell D. Thompson who is well remembered in the history of Madison County Indiana. Howell D. Thompson's father John L. Thompson lives in Randolph Indiana and is from York Pennsylvania. (He is also a suspect. His wife dies in 1839. I haven't gotten a good 1850 record for him, Howell D is living separately in Pendelton Indiana in 1850.)
Neither Samuel R. or James from VA shows a Levi or even a male child of a similar age, so...darn. Of course I've already been through Grant County in the past and didn't find Levi there, but it's worth a try.
Next I stepped back in time to 1850 to see where the Hollingsworths were and who lived around them. With John B. Hollingsworth's whole family for reference, he was actually pretty easy to find. In North Butler, Butler County, Pennsylvania.
Hold the phone! Things I know about Levi Thompson, he's born in Butler County Pennsylvania and moves to Madison Indiana sometime before 1855. He is a farmer but after the war becomes a stonemason or Tombstone manufacturer.
Things I now know about John B. Hollingsworth, he's born in Butler County Pennsylvania and moves to Madison Indiana sometime before 1860. He's a stonemason. Now that is a bit weird.
I started to wonder about a lot of things, like why are these guys so similar? How is it that I can find John B. Hollingsworth, practically a clone of Levi Thompson (or maybe the other way around) but I can't find Levi? What kind of ninja is Levi Thompson?
Well, then my next step was to go through the 1850 census in North Butler, Butler Pennsylvania and look for Thompsons..which I would expect to find because Butler PA is awful with Thompsons. I find three families of Thompsons.
One family consists of several Thompson children living with a Bayer or Boyer family. No Levi Thompsons. The second is a family of Thompsons who is lead by a man listed as Carles (there is no H) and his wife. Carles is from Massachusetts his wife is from Vermont. Again, No Levi Thompsons. The other Thompson family is one I've seen before. It's Jane (Stephenson/Stevenson) Thompson and her son David and Nathaniel Stevenson Thompson. Their father John Thompson is dead. He is sometimes linked with John, James and Matthew threesome of brothers who settle in Center and Franklin, Butler PA. No Levi Thompsons.
Again here, I've already been through the Butler censuses for 1850 and didn't see Levi Thompson then either so no big surprise there. Given our DNA results, I thought maybe I should do a search for males who were not Thompsons but were about the right age and came up with a laundry list of 15 year olds in North Butler.
Of course the Hollingsworths were there, but also scattered around the Stephenson Thompsons were just plain old Stephensons. The Stephenson Thompsons are living in a cluster of Stephensons in 1850. Nathaniel Stevenson Thompson is named after Jane Thompson's father Nathaniel Stevenson who is a pioneer from Scotland I believe. Jane and her sons must have been living around what I imagine is her sibling's family. Among these Stephenson's there was one record that was interesting. A male child listed as (something) N. Stephenson at the end of a list of Stephensons. I believe he is not a direct descendant of the head of household because he is listed after the entire family down to a 2 year old (which is what I see often with unrelated children). Although I'm sure I'm imagining it, the first letter looked a lot like an L to me.
I was at the point that I was convincing myself it was an L I was seeing and that the census taker had mislabeled that last boy as a Stephenson when he obviously was L. N. Thompson. Then I conjectured that Levi Thompson was obviously this L. N. Thompson the son of John Thompson and Jane Stephenson and that he left Pennsylvania with a friend named John B. Hollingsworth and moved to Madison Indiana with him. That was when I realized that it is way too easy to assign too much meaning to these coincidences.
Still, even without that last bit of fever dream, there are an awful lot of similarities with these two men John B. Hollingsworth and Levi Thompson with their proximity in 1860 and the same birthplace and later the same occupation. I think it will be worth further investigation.
Sunday, August 21, 2011
Hollingsworths
As I've contacted genetic relatives and asked permission to view their trees, I've made it a habit to try to check them against each other to see if they have any matches. I have a lot of matches in the Pennsylvania area, and sorting them out can be pretty hard, not least because they are so interrelated. I began with just one genetic relative who happened to be from Pennsylvania and also happened to have Thompsons. She actually has two distinct Thompson families. One family beginning with Robert Thompson born 1786 in Lancaster Co PA and the other beginning with James Thompson born 1668 Wicklow Ireland (but moved to New Jersey).
Previously I had gathered a list of surnames surrounding the Lancaster PA Thompsons to see if they appeared fairly often among my genetic matches. Many of them did. When I find a pattern in my matches in simple surname searches at 23 and me, I like to search through the trees I have shared to see if there is anything there.
What I've found is that the New Jersey Thompsons marry into the Hollingsworth family right there in the early 1700s with James and his wife Ann Hollingsworth. I also found that a second Genetic match had Hollingsworths in her tree right there at the same point. The second match was related to Randal Malin who marries Mary Hollingsworth (sister of Ann).
What really blew me out of the water was that a third genetic match was related to the Hollingsworths at Mary Hollingsworth born 1816 in Illinois.
The other odd irony is that the Hollingsworths seem to be active right in the same area of Pennsylvania and Delaware that the New Sweden colony was. Some were even married in the old Swedes church.
Of course there are no Hollingsworths in my tree that I know of (but that's what I know). I seem to be related to people who are related to Hollingsworths, but I do not genetically match with two Hollingsworths I've seen at Gedmatch.dom.
They may not be my family but clearly they are to be watched.
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/d/a/r/Earl-L-Darrah/GENE3-0005.html
Previously I had gathered a list of surnames surrounding the Lancaster PA Thompsons to see if they appeared fairly often among my genetic matches. Many of them did. When I find a pattern in my matches in simple surname searches at 23 and me, I like to search through the trees I have shared to see if there is anything there.
What I've found is that the New Jersey Thompsons marry into the Hollingsworth family right there in the early 1700s with James and his wife Ann Hollingsworth. I also found that a second Genetic match had Hollingsworths in her tree right there at the same point. The second match was related to Randal Malin who marries Mary Hollingsworth (sister of Ann).
What really blew me out of the water was that a third genetic match was related to the Hollingsworths at Mary Hollingsworth born 1816 in Illinois.
The other odd irony is that the Hollingsworths seem to be active right in the same area of Pennsylvania and Delaware that the New Sweden colony was. Some were even married in the old Swedes church.
Of course there are no Hollingsworths in my tree that I know of (but that's what I know). I seem to be related to people who are related to Hollingsworths, but I do not genetically match with two Hollingsworths I've seen at Gedmatch.dom.
They may not be my family but clearly they are to be watched.
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/d/a/r/Earl-L-Darrah/GENE3-0005.html
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