Y Breakdown

To try to help explain the Y testing I've done, I have a man chart of the men involved in our family Y testing extravaganza. At the top is patriarch Albert Thompson born in 1870 followed by his sons Ray Thompson and Francis Thompson. The dapper looking boy on the left is my grandfather.

This should help describe the layers. Blue boxes are filling in for men without pictures. I've labelled the testers under their squares. Basically my test is first. Then I ran test two with a second cousin of my father. If we had matched you can go all the way up to the intersection with Albert Thompson because that is where both sides meet. 

Since we didn't match, then we have to test a little closer to home, and there you have the test 1 match and test 2 match. Those tests can only confirm to their first intersection. So, my cousin and I testing verified our grandfather. Test two matches verify their grandfather (who is my grandfather's uncle). All that I can say is that my grandfather does not match his uncle as Y test 1 and Y test 2 do not match each other. Without siblings for my grandfather, we cannot confirm my great grandfather with Y testing. 

Now I'll look to 23 and me to provide answers as we have Y test 2 candidates run autosomal DNA tests. Y test 2 and my father should share great grandparents, if they show enough of a match to suspect that they share a single great grandparent (Ida Williamson - wife of Albert), then it will be more likely that the Y break happened at my great grandfather and it would confirm him. If not, then I would suspect that the break happened at my grandfather and we would more likely be unrelated to the Thompsons.

If it looks like we're unrelated to the Thompsons then the best bet for finding our Thompson/Williamson family would be to have both Y test 2 cousins run Autosomal tests at 23 and me. Where they matched each other would represent the contribution of their grandparents and make it easier to track down Williamson and Thompson matches.

We will also want to extend at least one of the Y tests out to 37 or 67 at FTDNA, because we'll want to clearly identify that main Thompson line. If they're P312, their results would line them up with other Scots Irish Thompsons  very well, but it would be nice after all this time to get that confirmed Thompson match and we can only accomplish that with more markers. 

There is also the tiniest of possibilities that the break in the Y didn't happen on my side of the tree but actually happened with Francis (my grandfather's uncle), but I think that is very very unlikely given how well they are already lining up with other Thompsons and how poorly we have. It's been pointed out to me that the only way we'll answer that is to find another Y line of Albert Thompson to test. Right now I think that leaves us Cuba Thompson the only other Thompson in this family, I've been able to find children for. He had a son named Gerald or Gerry or Jerry born in the 1930's to his wife Onda Harris.

There is also a very very tiny chance that we actually do match up and they are a super freak mutation away from us and towards "normal" European. Considering we fit with a cluster of people who all look like us at this level in Z14, that seems like a really fringe chance.

Wyrd

The results are in from my rounds of DNA testing. To confirm my grandfather (who has no brothers or sisters to test) I tested my first cousin and to confirm my grandfather's uncle, two of my father's second cousins tested. They were first cousins to each other and so confirmed their grandfather (my grandfather's uncle) brother to Ray Bishop Thompson in my tree. My grandfather having been raised alongside their fathers there in Indiana.

Things being right with the world, my cousin and I are a perfect match and the second cousins are a perfect match to each other.

My cousin:

13

25

14

11

11-11

12

12

12

13

13

30

Me:

13

25

14

11

11-11

12

12

12

13

13

30

Second cousin 1:

13

24

14

11

11-14

12

12

12

13

13

29

Second cousin 2:

13

24

14

11

11-14

12

12

12

13

13

29

You can see my cousin and I are pretty distinctive even at 12. We have the three 11s in a row which is actually a mark of our cluster under Z14. The 25 in position two where the modal is usually 24 (except in our cluster). 

So even at this most basic level we don't match the Indiana Thompsons very well except that we're both R1b. They are likely R1b-P312 while my cousin and I are down the other branch R1b-U106.

The Indiana Thompsons are already being placed with similar Thompsons in the Thompson project. Their DNA is exactly what I would expect from a Scots Irish Thompson. My cousin and I are still sitting in the "ungrouped" area.

What I know is that my grandfather does not share a Y ancestor with his uncle. Those are the facts. Whether he matched his dad is yet to be figured out. With no first cousin Thompsons for my dad to test against, we're done Y testing Thompsons on our side. 

The only way I can think of to find out if my grandfather is related to his father Ray Bishop Thompson is to test one of the Indiana Thompsons at 23 and me. If the NPE occurred at Ray Thompson then my grandfather could be related to Ida Williamson (his grandmother) but not Albert Thompson (his grandfather) and the Indiana Thompsons and my father would share a great grandmother. That could/should still be very visible in their autosomal DNA. 

If the NPE occurred at my grandfather, then he would be related to his mother Ina Finks, but not his father Ray Thompson and I would have to begin there looking for genetic relatives of my grandfather. No Williamsons to match with.

The reason I think the NPE is on my side of this equation is the fact that the Indiana Thompsons already have decent Thompson matches where I have had none. They look very Thompsonish while our results really do look "ungrouped". They are now really the best hope for finding the family of Levi Thompson.

If you've followed along, you know this has been quite a journey through what it means to be a Thompson and to search for your roots and follow the patterns. I've been hunting for people, but also following the arc of a stone thrown in the water and watching the ripples expand outward. Trying to piece together, sometimes ancient, history with strands of DNA and use it along with, often poorly kept, official records to figure out the minds and actions of people in the 1800s. In turn seeing how people from the 1800s have shaped my life and the lives of my children. It has been an awesome journey.

From very early on I've expected and suspected some form of NPE, but I know, deep down, that I have always sort of hoped it would be a little further back in time.

As I write this, what strikes me is that only by coming this far and battling this hard to piece things together, would I gain the knowledge and make the connections needed to know that my best hope to find Levi Thompson's roots is to remove myself from the equation.  

We Thompsons always do things the hard way, and this is no different. This time though Fate has smiled upon me and given me a good turn. I will find this family that gave me my name and shaped all our lives. I now have the piece of the puzzle I've been struggling to place. I have the tools and the information and I think things are going to start falling into place.

I also have a new clearer front in my campaign of genealogical terror. With some help from my Indiana Thompson cousins and 23 and me I'll be better able to tell where we diverge from the family genetically. Now that I don't have to meet up with my Thompsons using our very non-Thompsonish Y DNA, I'm going to be able to find our genetic paternal line too.

I have yet another interesting family to learn about. Fate goes ever as she shall.

Ancestors by Cousinship

At 23 and me, you'll often get an idea of Cousinship with a match request. It will say something like "estimated 4th cousin with a range of 3rd to 5th cousin" or "5th to distant cousin". So far, I've been lucky enough to gather one second cousin 1x removed  and one 4th cousin 1x removed for my father. Since 23 and me rolls out to 5th cousins in estimates I'll go from 2nd to 5th here as best I can. Some lines in my family end at second great grandparents for my dad so I've tried to note them in every generation as parents of or grandparents of a known person. I'm lucky to have a pretty decent tree, but there are still bald spots.

I've split out another paper trail Thompson list of ancestors that fits the records I've been able to find. I have a hunch the U152 Indiana Thompson branch will fit that tree better. Since it's in contention for my family though, it would probably just muddy the waters of people looking for cousinship matches at FTDNA, Gedmatch.com or 23 and me.

This list I will try to keep at a more Genetic level for my U106 Michigan Thompson line, Finks, Seelye and Campbell families. These are the family lines I've been able to solidify at a basic level through DNA testing. For example, although there are likely to be errors in the Finks family tree, through testing a Finks relative, I know we're related genetically to the Finks family.

Here is my dad's list of ancestors by cousinship:

****2nd cousin sharing great grandparents****

Robert Sanford Finks
Birth 16 Sep 1879 in Mackinaw, Tazewell, Illinois, USA

Ida Ellen Mitchell (Michel)
Birth Jul 1883 in Illinois, USA

McKendree Thomas Seelye
Birth 10 Nov 1858 in Hadley, Lapeer, Michigan, United States
Death 19 Jul 1953 in Montrose, Gennessee, Michigan, United States

Clara Elizabeth Beadle
Birth 1 Apr 1864 in Ypsilanti, Washtenaw, Michigan, United States
Death 3 Jul 1925 in Lum, Lapeer, Michigan, United States

William John Campbell
Birth 21 Aug 1857 in Komoka, Middlesex City, Upper Canada
Death 15 Apr 1936 in Montrose, Genesee, Michigan

Adelia Frances Light
Birth 23 Jun 1865 in Vienna, Elgin City, Ontario, Canada
Death abt 1894 in Flint, Michigan, USA, Genesee Co.


****3rd cousin sharing 2nd great grandparents****

William Jackson Finks
Birth Sep 22 1837 in Culpepper county, Virginia, USA
Death 6 May 1922 in TAZEWELL CO., ILLINOIS

Telitha Hibbard
Birth abt 1845 in Illinois, USA
Death after 1910

Charles Auguste Mitchell (Michel)
Birth 30 Mar 1834 in Croismare, Meurthe-et-Moselle, Lorraine, France
Death 1889 in Tazewell County, Illinois, USA

Margaret A PERNELL
Birth 27 Jan 1853 in Pekin, Tazewell, Illinois, United States
Death 9 Dec 1927 in Groveland, Tazewell, Illinois, United States

Thomas Seelye
Birth 4 Feb 1821 in Westmoreland, Oneida Co., New York
Death 3 Jan 1895 in Ann Arbor, Washtenaw Co., Michigan

Naomi Dorothea Sutherland
Birth 7 Sep 1822 in Cambria, Niagara, New York, United States
Death 10 Dec 1904 in Ann Arbor, Washtenaw Co., Michigan

Myron Henry Beadle
Birth 30 Nov 1838 in Pennsylvania, United States
Death 18 Jan 1915 in Unadilla, Livingston, Michigan, United States

Ellen Mariah Hathaway
Birth 11 Sep 1843 in York, Washtenaw, Michigan, United States
Death 3 Sep 1923 in Unadilla, Livingston, Michigan, United States

Duncan Campbell
Birth 1828 in Ontario, Canada


Nancy J Osborne
Birth abt 1836 in Canada


Lazarus Light
Birth 8 May 1830 in Downton, England, United Kingdom
Death 1906 in Vienna, Ontario, Canada

Elizabeth Abbe
Birth 10 Jan 1827 in Lincoln, Ontario, Canada
Death 10 Mar 1890 in Lincoln, Ontario, Canada


****4th cousin sharing 3rd great grandparents****


John Finks
Birth 1793 in Rappahannock County, Virginia, USA
Death Nov 1871 in MacKinaw, Tazewell, Illinois, United States

Winifred McQueen
Birth 1791 in Rappahannock County, Virginia, USA
Death 6 sep 1859 in MacKinaw, Tazewell, Illinois, United States

Mortimer G Hibbard
Birth abt 1827 in Ohio, USA

Philicy Felicia Ann Jeffers (Jeffries)
View relationship to me
Birth 1821 in Kentucky, USA

Jean Louis Mitchell Michel
Death 8 Dec 1862 in Tazewell County, Illinois, USA

Anne Aubert
Birth 13 May 1799 in Haudonville, Meurthe-et-Moselle, Lorraine, France

Parents of Margaret Pernell born 1853 in Tazewell Ill
...pos John Pernell and Mary Ann Lambert

Cornelius Seeley
Birth 3 Sep 1796 in Westmoreland, Oneida, New York, USA
Death 4 Mar 1866 in Westmoreland, Oneida, New York, USA

Rachel Smith
Birth 1 Oct 1800 in New York, United States
Death 18 Oct 1843 in Ohio, United States

Andrew Sutherland
Birth 3 Sep 1776 in Sutherland Falls, Rutland, Vermont, United States
Death 27 Feb 1836 in Cambria, Niagara, New York, United States

Naomi Annie Cooley
Birth 6 Oct 1788 in Pittsford, Rutland, Vermont, United States
Death 15 Dec 1870 in Romeo, Macomb, Michigan, United States

Frederick Beadle
Birth 22 Apr 1813 in New York, United States
Death 13 Mar 1872 in Washtenaw, Michigan, United States

Christina Scoby
Birth abt 1820 in New York, United States
Death 1862 in Wheatland Center, Hillsdale, Michigan, United States

Isaac Baldwin Hathaway
Birth 23 Apr 1817 in of, Wayne, New York, United States
Death 21 Dec 1906 in Parma, Jackson, Michigan, United States

Eliza Ann Morey
Birth 1819 in Milton, Ulster County, New York
Death 1846 in Pittsfield, Washtenaw, Michigan, United States

John Campbell
Birth 1804 in Argyllshire, Scotland, United Kingdom
Death 18 Apr 1881 in Lambton, Ontario, Canada

Catherine Anne McArthur
Birth 1799 in Islay, Argyllshire, Scotland
Death 4 Jan 1874 in Halton, Ontario, Canada

Parents of Nancy Osborne born 1836 Canada
..pos William Osborne and Mary A Unknown

George Light
Birth 16 Feb 1783 in Downton, Herefordshire, England
Death 12 Mar 1864 in Vienna, Elgin, Ontario, Canada

Mary Clarke
Birth 01 Jan 1788 in England
Death 12 Sep 1871 in Vienna, Elgin, Ontario, Canada

Daniel Abbe
Birth 8 Nov 1801 in Granby, Hampshire, Massachusetts
Death 1849 in Lincoln, Ontario, Canada

Esther Nunn
Birth July 23 1809 in Lincoln, Ontario, Canada
Death abt 1875 in Lincoln, Ontario, Canada


****5th cousin sharing 4th great grandparents****


Andrew Finks?
Birth  Virginia


Mary Fielding..or maybe Lucy Vawter (wife of Andrew Finks)

Samuel McQueen
Birth 1762 in Culpeper, Culpeper, Virginia, United States
Death 1815 in Culpeper, Culpeper, Virginia, United States

Martha Unknown
Birth 1758
Death 1821 in Culpeper County, Virginia, USA

Elias Hibbard
Birth 4 Mar 1797 in Fairhaven, Rutland, Vermont, USA
Death abt 1846 in Clark, Illinois, United States

Diadama Amanda Darcy Bridge
Birth 1804 in Canada
Death 1890 in Fulton County, Illinois, USA

William Jeffries
Birth 1783 in Virginia, United States
Death 1823 in Washington, Kentucky, United States

Ann Jett
Birth Abt 1785 in Virginia, United States
Death Aft 1840

Parents of Jean Michel and Ann Aubert from France

Parents of John Pernell?

Parents of Mary Ann Lambert (pos Joseph Lambert and Margaret Smilaire)

Daniel Seeley
Birth 1 Jul 1763 in Deer Park, Orange, New York, United States
Death 29 May 1840 in Westmoreland, Oneida, New York, United States

Phoebe Fulkerson
Birth 20 Feb 1768 in Westmoreland, Oneida, New York, United States
Death 13 May 1803 in Westmoreland, Oneida, New York, United States

Parents of Rachel Smith (pos Thomas Smith and "Betts")

Peter Sutherland
Birth 1756-02-20  Bangall, Dutchess, New York, USA
Death 1828-05-00  Sutherland Falls, Rutland, Vermont, USA


Carol Bush
Birth 1754 in Sutherland Falls, Rutland, Vermont, USA

Benjamin Cooley
Birth 30 Apr 1747 in Greenwich, Hampshire, Massachusetts, United States
Death 27 February 1810 in Pittsford, Rutland, Vermont, United States

Ruth Beach
Birth 11 Jan 1756 in Morristown, Morris, New Jersey, United States
Death 5 Sep 1825 in Pittsford, Rutland, Vermont, United States

Parents of Frederick Beadle born 1813 NY

Parents of Christina Scoby born 1820 NY

ISAAC Hathaway
Birth 19 Mar 1777 in Rockaway, Morris, New Jersey, United States
Death 17 Feb 1848 in York, Washtenaw, Michigan, United States

Mary Heddon
Birth 27 Jan 1778 in Rockaway, Morris, New Jersey, United States
Death 14 Aug 1849 in Washtenaw, Michigan, United States

Parents of Eliza Ann Morey born 1819 Ulster NY

Patrick Campbell
Birth 1775 in Inveraray, Argyll, Scotland
Death 25 Sep 1848 in Kent, Ontario, Canada

Ann McArthur
Birth 1776 in Argyll, Scotland
Death 1 Jun 1869 in Kent, Ontario, Canada

Parents of Catherine Anne McArthur Birth 1799 in Islay, Argyllshire, Scotland

Parens of William Osborne and Mary A Unknown

Parents of George Light born 1783 Herefordshire Eng.

John Clarke
Birth Jul 1751 in Chatteris, Cambridgeshire, England
Death 1 Apr 1825 in Chatteris, Cambridgeshire, England

Sarah Unknown
Birth 1754 in Chatteris, Cambridgeshire, England
Death 1844 in Chatteris, Cambridgeshire, England

Abner Abbe
Birth 5 Nov 1758 in North Windham, Windham, Connecticut, United States
Death 13 Dec 1805 in Windham, Windham, Connecticut, United States

Sarah Swetland
Birth 22 Aug 1762 in Springfield, Hampden, Massachusetts, United States
Death 1815 in Connecticut, United States

Benjamin Nunn
Birth 16 Apr 1775 in Bucks, Pennsylvania
Death Nov 1862 in South Dorchester Township, Elgin, Ontario, Canada

Elizabeth Fretz
Birth 22 Apr 1789 in Bucks, Pennsylvania, USA
Death Jun 1863 in South Dorchester Township, Elgin, Ontario, Canada

Pain and Promise of Autosomal DNA

I used 23 and me for my autosomal DNA testing. It's whole chromosome testing vs Y chromosome testing. Even though my main search is for someone who should be on my Y line, if you think of it like the census, you usually find a Thompson by identifying their family members. I am a Thompson and a Seelye and a Nunn and a Blades etc..

Once you're tested you are presented with matches. What you need from a match is exactly this:

• What chromosome do we match on and where does it begin and end.
• A family tree from that person back at least a few generations.

At 23 and me the contact process is painful because they want to protect customers who are there for medical research. So if someone does not choose to be public, you can see almost nothing about them except maybe some surnames (good luck there) and their Y and MTDNA haplogroups (both useless here because you can't match on them). You can also see a rough percentage of match and maybe number of segments and a bit of an idea of what level of cousinship they might be.

Neither of those two things you need from above are available without contact.

If they do choose to be public sometimes they may have a tree in their profile and then you could see that, but nothing of the chromosome match which is crucial for making sense of the randomness.

Why? This:

That is a genetic match to two people. One is a known relative who shares Daniel Abbe and Esther Nunn (both born around 1800 or so). You can see them as blue, they match on chromosome 1 and the X chromosome. My dad gets his X from his mom and sure enough there is an unbroken line of moms back to Esther Nunn and back down through their other daughter to the man my dad matches with. That unbroken line of females is important to the X. Women get an X from each parent, but men only get the one. In this case the X and the chromosome 1 match may come from either Daniel or Esther or both as it was recombined in their daughters.

The little green bar is a match with a person who does not yet connect to Daniel Abbe and Esther Nunn in her tree, but now I know that she likely should be in their tree, probably from a shared ancestor farther back in time from them.

I know that because she shared genomes and I can compare her to my known match and compare them to each other and see that all three people match in the same spot for the same amount and length. That segment there in blue and green came to us from a shared ancestor we may be able to identify.

So to be at all successful, you need both those ingredients. Without them, it's a hopeless task and because you don't get any of it without asking..it's a crapshoot.

There are four groups of people among my matches, those that are not interested. Those that are willing to share genomes. Those that are willing to share trees and Those that are happy to do both. If I send out 60 invites to share information. The majority of them, I will never hear from because they are in group 1 (not interested). I may hear back from 10 people. Of those 10, 6 will share genomes and 4 will share trees only. Of those 6 that shared genomes, 4 will not respond to any contact...not even a hello. Of the two who respond most often they will not have a family tree...but they're willing which is golden.

I've been denied sharing, either of genomes or trees because...the match is too small and would be too old, so they're not going to try and further they aren't going to let me try either. I've been denied because people don't know what sharing is. I've been denied because we don't share surnames (seriously, I'm not doing this because I know who everyone is! I've got missing people to find!). The list goes on and on. 

The amazing thing is, I don't really always need participation. I only need those two things above..genomes and trees.

If you do get a person with a tree who is willing to share genomes, then you can START figuring out who they match with and where a common ancestor might be. Then you can begin to do the thing you actually signed up for.

I count myself lucky to have several people willing to share and what's more, I've also got people that are eager to work on it too. Those people make everything worthwhile. They are shining examples of hope in the face of certain doom.

What is most painful about it is the time spent just to get to the point where you can TRY to find a matching ancestor. It's not easy. You have to organize and coordinate and communicate with people who really don't know you very well. It's like herding cats and the system is constantly working against you by not making it easy to communicate and track communications.

Sometimes you get lucky like with Daniel and Esther there, but most of the time it's a side shoot of a side branch or a vague location match. Even with everything in your favor, your work is cut out for you.

In the next post I'm going to put up my father's list of ancestors by cousinship. Most people will not have this many surnames. Many people (like myself when I started) may not know their grandparents real names. What it will illustrate is the problem with my own tree that I see everywhere.

I don't know enough to get far enough back. If I have matches in the 1700s at 5th cousin levels, I'm sunk for large portions of my tree. I just don't know enough. How can I match surnames with people when I don't know what they all are?

In this area, we're pioneers. There isn't a set protocol for these things. We're all doing the best we can and really those people who fall by the wayside are doing what they can too. I imagine in the future this will be old hat, but for now it's a lot of toil for those precious rewards and I have to be patient and hope everyone can be patient with me while we work this out.