Tonight I ordered a Y test of another descendant of Levi Thompson's son Albert. This person branches off from my family at Albert's son Francis Pearl. I am down the line of Albert's son Ray Bishop. It's a twelve marker test. The lowest possible test from Family Tree DNA and not one they offer anymore on the regular site, but they're doing it as a promotion to go along with a "who do you think you are" event.
Having finally run across the most inexpensive Y DNA test I could find, I jumped at the opportunity to possibly end my time as a Y snowflake. It's very exciting because if everything lines up as expected we'll have a good idea of what Albert Thompson's Y DNA looked like and if we don't match at all, then we can start looking and testing for possible non-paternal events.
My next step with this same branch of the Thompson family would be autosomal testing (Family Finder or 23 and Me) to see where we have common genetic relatives.
Sorting out the Puzzle Pieces in My Big Messy Family
Wednesday, February 20, 2013
Sunday, February 3, 2013
DYS463 Return from Elmer
After being alerted to an anomaly in my Y DNA STRs (as compared to my cluster mates and the rest of R1b-Z18, I began to look more closely at DYS463. Here is my original post on that New Eyes on Y DNA. As you would see there the Knowltons and Elmer at SMGF share the value of 23 at DYS463. Most of Z18 has 25 there and it's used as something of a predictor for Z18+ status. So this value of 23 stands out. It's one thing to have it stand out at SMGF, but I think it will be more important to have it displayed at FTDNA where most Y DNA research is going on.
To confirm what I'm seeing at SMGF among Knowltons and Elmers I asked my Elmer match and the lead of the Knowlton Y DNA project to test DYS463 as well. The results for Elmer are in and they are DYS463=23 as expected.
It's nice because it solidifies the link between my SMGF Elmer match and my FTNDA Elmer match. At some point in the future I hope to post the same result for the Knowlton match in Z18 as well. I expect the FTDNA Knowltons to line up with the SMGF Knowltons with DYS463=23 as well.
In the cumberland cluster under Z18 Thomas, Chandler, Grundy, Slaghekke all show 25. I know from the respective projects of Pipkin, Dameron and the Winne tester that they also carry 25 at DYS463.
A posting in the DNA Newbies forum got me thinking about CDYa and b values. In the Cumberland cluster, Knowlton, Elmer and I also carry CDYa/b as 35/37. CDYa and b are fast changing positions and mismatches are to be expected there, but it's interesting to me that the three people who have a 23 at DYS463 also match at CDYa and b.
Right now there is another tester who has 35/37 at CDYa and b, Atkinson. I'd be curious to see what their DYS463 result would be to see if there is some pattern there.
To confirm what I'm seeing at SMGF among Knowltons and Elmers I asked my Elmer match and the lead of the Knowlton Y DNA project to test DYS463 as well. The results for Elmer are in and they are DYS463=23 as expected.
It's nice because it solidifies the link between my SMGF Elmer match and my FTNDA Elmer match. At some point in the future I hope to post the same result for the Knowlton match in Z18 as well. I expect the FTDNA Knowltons to line up with the SMGF Knowltons with DYS463=23 as well.
In the cumberland cluster under Z18 Thomas, Chandler, Grundy, Slaghekke all show 25. I know from the respective projects of Pipkin, Dameron and the Winne tester that they also carry 25 at DYS463.
A posting in the DNA Newbies forum got me thinking about CDYa and b values. In the Cumberland cluster, Knowlton, Elmer and I also carry CDYa/b as 35/37. CDYa and b are fast changing positions and mismatches are to be expected there, but it's interesting to me that the three people who have a 23 at DYS463 also match at CDYa and b.
Right now there is another tester who has 35/37 at CDYa and b, Atkinson. I'd be curious to see what their DYS463 result would be to see if there is some pattern there.
Connections to Others in Grant Indiana
I decided to spend some more time looking at the man from Butler PA that I can follow fairly well. John Burgess Hollingsworth. This time I focused on histories. Using three histories of Grant county I was able to figure out that John B. Hollingsworth is John Burgess Hollingsworth, his middle name reflects his mother's maiden name. I have some garbled machine translated text from the histories that I'll post here.
This first one is really interesting because it gives him a birth place outside of Pennsylvania which is unexpected. It also lists the Kelsay family (see set in stone) and gives more information about his life:
JOHN B. HOLLINGSWORTH
Retired monument dealer, was born in Hudson County, Ohio, August 5, 1836. His grandparents were natives of Pittsburgh, as were his parents, William Hollingsworth, born June 5 181 1, and Lucinda, born May 8, 1814. William and Lucinda' Hollingsworth were the parents of six children, namely: Wesley B., John B., Gilmore, Mariah, Isabel and William. In 1856 John B. Hollingsworth came to Fairmount Township with his parents, locating in Fairmount, then a village of about a dozen houses. The father opened the first cabinet shop in the Township, making household furniture of all kinds by hand, and supplying pioneers with coffins for their dead.
This is really neat because it gives information about his parents, saying they are from Pittsburgh. No Mention is made of their time in Butler PA. William Hollingsworth makes coffins, which translates very well into the related profession of tombstone manufacturer that Levi Thompson is in 1870. John B becomes a stonecutter instead of a carpenter.
John B. went to school at White
Hall and also at Summitville. He
started to learn the carpenter trade
with his uncle, William Wellington,
then living at Summitville, remain-'
ing with his relative about one year,
then returning to Fairmount and
working at odd jobs until the spring
of 1861.
On April 23, 1861, he en-
listed in Company K, Eighth Indi-
ana Volunteer Infantry, for the
three months' service, remaining
with this regiment until the com-
mand was mustered out on August 6, 1861. He, with Smith Kelsay and
Isaac Smithson, were the first three Fairmount Township men who at the
outbreak of war responded to President Lincoln's call for troops. October
I, 1861, Hollingsworth enlisted in Company H, Twelfth Indiana Volunteer
Infantry, serving seven months in this regiment. With this command he
was discharged May 18, 1862. On August 10, 1862, he volunteered for the
third time, enlisting in Company H, Eighth Indiana Volunteer Infantry, for
three years, or until the close of the war. The Eighth was mustered out
June 14, 1865. He was with his regiment at the battle of Rich Mountain.
West Virginia, July 12. 1861. During his second enlistment his regiment
was on guard duty, being stationed near Sharpsburg, Maryland, guarding
the Potomac River. During his third enlistment he saw hard service with
the Eighth Indiana Infantry, participating with his command in the battles
of Blackwater. Missouri. Port Gibson, Champion Hills, Jackson, Big Black,
Vicksburg, second battle of Jackson, Hall Town, Oppcquon, New Market.
Cedar Creek and T'isher's Hill. At Cedar Creek, on October 19, 1864. just
before Gen. Phil Sheridan arrived to rally his deinoralized army, Hollings-
worth met Harry Norton, who was then sick. Hollingsworth helped his
comrade along as far as Norton was able to go. The Confederates had at
this point flanked the Union forces and it was a case of every man for him-
self. Norton insisted that Hollingsworth go on and take care of himself,
explaining, after much effort, that he was too sick and too weak, to go far-
ther. Hollingsworth reluctantly left his comrade. The Confederates were
upon them. Hollingsworth wheeled around, fired at his pursuers as he re-
treated, and took to his lucls. making his escape to the Union lines as
bullets were "throwing up dirt all about him." Norton fell into the hands
of the Confederates, and was taken to Libby Prison, where h^ died.
Now I know that William Wellington in Summitville (a township in Van Buren Madison Indiana) is John B Hollingsworth's uncle and is teaching him to be a carpenter before the war. You can also see that Smith Kelsay enters the war with John B Hollingsworth.
In June. 1865, Hollingsworth returned home and for many years successfully
carried on a monument business in Fairmount. - On February 17. 1876, he
was married to Mrs. Hary Hall Hathaway, daughter of William and Han-
nah (Stanfield) Hall, who was born February 11, 1844, in Fairmount Town-
ship. To this union four children were born, namely: Martin L., Morton,
Joseph B. and Sarah L., all deceased except Morton.
And here is the mention of the monument business and stone cutting that I am familiar with. So it seems like John B. Hollingsworth may be the source of Levi's stone cutting after all.
Here is more on William Hollingsworth. Notice the bit about "undertaking goods":
WILLIAM HOLIINGSWORTH, undertaker and cabinetmaker, Fairmount, was
born in Chester County, Penn., June 25, 1811, and is the youngest of a
family of five born to William and Hannah (White) Hollingsworth.
The father was a hatter by trade, and followed that vocation until his
death; he died in 1812, and his wife in 1837. The boyhood of our
subject was very like that of any other Pennsylvania lad of the same
period, and he early in life learned the bitter, but beneficent lesson
of self-dependence, and soon took up the business of life in manly
earnest At the age of eighteen years he began to learn the
cabinet-maker's trade, in Pittsburgh, Penn. After serving his
apprenticeship he worked at his trade in different localities. In 1852
he came to Madison County, Ind., where he opened a furniture shop and
salesroom of his own, which he carried on till 1869. He then moved to
Fairmount, where he conducts an extensive business in all styles of
furniture and undertaking goods. He was married in Pittsburgh, Penn.,
April 25, 1833, to Miss Lucinda Burges, a native of Pennsylvania, bora
October 14, 1814, and died in Fairmount in the year 1881. The
following are the children by this marriage : Wesley B., John B.,
Gilmore, Maria and Isabel. The three sons served in the war of the
Rebellion. Gilmore, the third son, died in Fairmount in 1885. Mr.
Hollingsworth is a member of the United Brethren Church. In politics
he is a Republican.
William Hollingsworth is said to live in Madison County and he's from Chester County PA so this family has been on the move for a few generations.
Now I'm going to post an image from an e-book on Grant county that mentions the Kelsays, and John B along with his stone cutting business. The story is about John Montgomery who worked for John Hollingsworth and the Kelsay brothers who bought John Hollingsworth's business:
Another family name really sticks out to me in this listing. I see there are Brodericks. They're not the exact same Brodericks that Levi Thompson lives with in 1860, but they are a Broderick family from Grant Indiana, just like George Broderick (born in Grant) who lives with Levi.
All of this is just adding some cohesion to what I'm seeing in the census. How did these people come together? Maybe if I keep going I will find out why George Broderick and Levi Thompson name their daughters Frances (and probaby both Rena too). Was it a shared cultural item or a respected person in the community? Did they all attend the same church?
If John B Hollingworth is Levi's friend or employer, why isn't he a witness on Levi's pension file? Did they know each other from Butler PA? Is there something for me to look into in Hudson County Ohio in 1850? Is Pittsburgh a stand in for Butler PA or are the Hollingsworths really from there? Who are the Wellingtons?
Lots of questions that could be pulling me closer to good answers or pulling me further away.
This first one is really interesting because it gives him a birth place outside of Pennsylvania which is unexpected. It also lists the Kelsay family (see set in stone) and gives more information about his life:
JOHN B. HOLLINGSWORTH
Retired monument dealer, was born in Hudson County, Ohio, August 5, 1836. His grandparents were natives of Pittsburgh, as were his parents, William Hollingsworth, born June 5 181 1, and Lucinda, born May 8, 1814. William and Lucinda' Hollingsworth were the parents of six children, namely: Wesley B., John B., Gilmore, Mariah, Isabel and William. In 1856 John B. Hollingsworth came to Fairmount Township with his parents, locating in Fairmount, then a village of about a dozen houses. The father opened the first cabinet shop in the Township, making household furniture of all kinds by hand, and supplying pioneers with coffins for their dead.
This is really neat because it gives information about his parents, saying they are from Pittsburgh. No Mention is made of their time in Butler PA. William Hollingsworth makes coffins, which translates very well into the related profession of tombstone manufacturer that Levi Thompson is in 1870. John B becomes a stonecutter instead of a carpenter.
John B. went to school at White
Hall and also at Summitville. He
started to learn the carpenter trade
with his uncle, William Wellington,
then living at Summitville, remain-'
ing with his relative about one year,
then returning to Fairmount and
working at odd jobs until the spring
of 1861.
On April 23, 1861, he en-
listed in Company K, Eighth Indi-
ana Volunteer Infantry, for the
three months' service, remaining
with this regiment until the com-
mand was mustered out on August 6, 1861. He, with Smith Kelsay and
Isaac Smithson, were the first three Fairmount Township men who at the
outbreak of war responded to President Lincoln's call for troops. October
I, 1861, Hollingsworth enlisted in Company H, Twelfth Indiana Volunteer
Infantry, serving seven months in this regiment. With this command he
was discharged May 18, 1862. On August 10, 1862, he volunteered for the
third time, enlisting in Company H, Eighth Indiana Volunteer Infantry, for
three years, or until the close of the war. The Eighth was mustered out
June 14, 1865. He was with his regiment at the battle of Rich Mountain.
West Virginia, July 12. 1861. During his second enlistment his regiment
was on guard duty, being stationed near Sharpsburg, Maryland, guarding
the Potomac River. During his third enlistment he saw hard service with
the Eighth Indiana Infantry, participating with his command in the battles
of Blackwater. Missouri. Port Gibson, Champion Hills, Jackson, Big Black,
Vicksburg, second battle of Jackson, Hall Town, Oppcquon, New Market.
Cedar Creek and T'isher's Hill. At Cedar Creek, on October 19, 1864. just
before Gen. Phil Sheridan arrived to rally his deinoralized army, Hollings-
worth met Harry Norton, who was then sick. Hollingsworth helped his
comrade along as far as Norton was able to go. The Confederates had at
this point flanked the Union forces and it was a case of every man for him-
self. Norton insisted that Hollingsworth go on and take care of himself,
explaining, after much effort, that he was too sick and too weak, to go far-
ther. Hollingsworth reluctantly left his comrade. The Confederates were
upon them. Hollingsworth wheeled around, fired at his pursuers as he re-
treated, and took to his lucls. making his escape to the Union lines as
bullets were "throwing up dirt all about him." Norton fell into the hands
of the Confederates, and was taken to Libby Prison, where h^ died.
Now I know that William Wellington in Summitville (a township in Van Buren Madison Indiana) is John B Hollingsworth's uncle and is teaching him to be a carpenter before the war. You can also see that Smith Kelsay enters the war with John B Hollingsworth.
In June. 1865, Hollingsworth returned home and for many years successfully
carried on a monument business in Fairmount. - On February 17. 1876, he
was married to Mrs. Hary Hall Hathaway, daughter of William and Han-
nah (Stanfield) Hall, who was born February 11, 1844, in Fairmount Town-
ship. To this union four children were born, namely: Martin L., Morton,
Joseph B. and Sarah L., all deceased except Morton.
And here is the mention of the monument business and stone cutting that I am familiar with. So it seems like John B. Hollingsworth may be the source of Levi's stone cutting after all.
Here is more on William Hollingsworth. Notice the bit about "undertaking goods":
WILLIAM HOLIINGSWORTH, undertaker and cabinetmaker, Fairmount, was
born in Chester County, Penn., June 25, 1811, and is the youngest of a
family of five born to William and Hannah (White) Hollingsworth.
The father was a hatter by trade, and followed that vocation until his
death; he died in 1812, and his wife in 1837. The boyhood of our
subject was very like that of any other Pennsylvania lad of the same
period, and he early in life learned the bitter, but beneficent lesson
of self-dependence, and soon took up the business of life in manly
earnest At the age of eighteen years he began to learn the
cabinet-maker's trade, in Pittsburgh, Penn. After serving his
apprenticeship he worked at his trade in different localities. In 1852
he came to Madison County, Ind., where he opened a furniture shop and
salesroom of his own, which he carried on till 1869. He then moved to
Fairmount, where he conducts an extensive business in all styles of
furniture and undertaking goods. He was married in Pittsburgh, Penn.,
April 25, 1833, to Miss Lucinda Burges, a native of Pennsylvania, bora
October 14, 1814, and died in Fairmount in the year 1881. The
following are the children by this marriage : Wesley B., John B.,
Gilmore, Maria and Isabel. The three sons served in the war of the
Rebellion. Gilmore, the third son, died in Fairmount in 1885. Mr.
Hollingsworth is a member of the United Brethren Church. In politics
he is a Republican.
William Hollingsworth is said to live in Madison County and he's from Chester County PA so this family has been on the move for a few generations.
Now I'm going to post an image from an e-book on Grant county that mentions the Kelsays, and John B along with his stone cutting business. The story is about John Montgomery who worked for John Hollingsworth and the Kelsay brothers who bought John Hollingsworth's business:
Why I find this exciting stuff is that it helps me put a timeline and frame in when Levi Thompson became a stone cutter and tombstone manufacturer. It also means there may be more to look into in Grant county and maybe something of interest in the Wellington family.
It gives me the idea that when Levi returned from the war and wasn't fit to be a farmer, John B Hollingsworth gave him a job as a stone cutter. So chances are, Levi lived in Madison county but worked in Grant.
This final bit is about the Methodist Episcopal Church in Grant County. William Hollingsworth was a member of the United Brethren, some united brethren were Moravians but I think in this case it is a Methodist church and was probably the Unity Church in Grant County. William Hollingsworth's children seem to be attracted to the Methodist church as I see familiar names like Isabel Hollingsworth among the congregation.
The Methodist Episcopal Church, of Fairmount, was originally or-
ganized in 1 86 1. The first services were held in the old frame school
house,* which, at that time, stood on the east side of Walnut Street,
between First and Second.
The charter members were William H. Broderick, class leader ;
Agnes Broderick, Joseph Broderick, Martha Broderick, David Baldwin,
Elizabeth Baldwin, Martha A. Wilcuts, Hannah Wilcuts, M. M. Mason
and Anna Mason.
In 1864 the membership had increased by the addition of the fol-
lowing names : John R. Kirkwood, Phebe Kirkwood, George N. Eck-
feld, Sarah M. Eckfeld, (Mary H. Moreland, Mahala Ward, Martha A.
Smith, Thomas J. Parker, Rebecca Parker, John Shields, Martha
Shields, John S. Bradford, Louisia Williams, Rachel Fankboner, Sarah
Moreland, Jane Knight, Delilah Hollingsworth, Wesley B. Hollings-
worth and Isabel Hollingsworth.
ganized in 1 86 1. The first services were held in the old frame school
house,* which, at that time, stood on the east side of Walnut Street,
between First and Second.
The charter members were William H. Broderick, class leader ;
Agnes Broderick, Joseph Broderick, Martha Broderick, David Baldwin,
Elizabeth Baldwin, Martha A. Wilcuts, Hannah Wilcuts, M. M. Mason
and Anna Mason.
In 1864 the membership had increased by the addition of the fol-
lowing names : John R. Kirkwood, Phebe Kirkwood, George N. Eck-
feld, Sarah M. Eckfeld, (Mary H. Moreland, Mahala Ward, Martha A.
Smith, Thomas J. Parker, Rebecca Parker, John Shields, Martha
Shields, John S. Bradford, Louisia Williams, Rachel Fankboner, Sarah
Moreland, Jane Knight, Delilah Hollingsworth, Wesley B. Hollings-
worth and Isabel Hollingsworth.
Another family name really sticks out to me in this listing. I see there are Brodericks. They're not the exact same Brodericks that Levi Thompson lives with in 1860, but they are a Broderick family from Grant Indiana, just like George Broderick (born in Grant) who lives with Levi.
All of this is just adding some cohesion to what I'm seeing in the census. How did these people come together? Maybe if I keep going I will find out why George Broderick and Levi Thompson name their daughters Frances (and probaby both Rena too). Was it a shared cultural item or a respected person in the community? Did they all attend the same church?
If John B Hollingworth is Levi's friend or employer, why isn't he a witness on Levi's pension file? Did they know each other from Butler PA? Is there something for me to look into in Hudson County Ohio in 1850? Is Pittsburgh a stand in for Butler PA or are the Hollingsworths really from there? Who are the Wellingtons?
Lots of questions that could be pulling me closer to good answers or pulling me further away.
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