Following up on the stonemasons that live around Levi in the 1860 Census, I found John B. Hollingsworth from Butler Pennsylvania living with a Kelso Family. He is listed under a "Smith" Kelso who is also a stonecutter. Smith Kelso actually is Smith Kelsay and is part of the Kelsay family that moves to Indiana from Ohio. I believe Smith may be Robert's much younger brother...or his son. In which case he would have been born before his parents were married.
Robert Kelsay (born around 1809 in VA) the head of the family is listed as a farmer in 1860. In 1850 when there is no Levi Thompson or John B Hollingsworth in Van Buren Indiana, Robert Kelsay is listed as a stonemason. His wife Hannah is from Pennsylvania. In family trees is shows that they were married in 1843 in Paris Ohio and gives Hannah's name as Hannah Minyoung.
Robert Kelsay has a son named Albert Kelsay. Alberts always get my attention. I attempted to find a connection for Hannah Minyoung in Pennsylvania, but couldn't find any.
At a minimum, I think this is the source for Levi's tombstone manufacturing after the civil war. It would seem to me that he and John B. Hollingsworth picked up the skill after they moved to Indiana and lived with or near Robert Kelsay and family.
Whether there is some further connection between these people, I don't know.
I was able to follow up on the Hollingsworths a bit more. John B. Hollingsworth's mother was Lucinda Burgess, in family trees she is shown as being born in Pittsburgh. John B's father William Hollingsworth born 1811 is shown in family trees to be from Chester county PA. They have a daughter Isabella who was born in 1848 and a son Gilmore who was born in 1838.
Of course, as I've probably mentioned before when looking at the John Thompson and Jane Stevenson, the Bayer family and other Thompsons all from North Butler...the name Isabella seems to repeat. The Thompsons, Bayers and Hollingsworths all seem to have Isabellas and sometimes multiple generations of them.
It's too bad Levi didn't have an Isabella in his mix of children. That would be an awesome pattern match.
Sorting out the Puzzle Pieces in My Big Messy Family
Sunday, September 16, 2012
Saturday, September 8, 2012
Gathering Elmers
In trying to solidify who in the world our Thompsons are most like. It's helpful to have a nice group of very close matches...which I think I'm putting together.
Although I have two Elmers that I match very well with, only one had a tree that would reach far enough back to give us a rough European origin.
Recently though, my Elmer contact found the tree of an Elmore from the Elmore DNA project that also reaches back to the same Edward Elmer who is a founder of Hartford Connecticut. Of course then, the thing to look for is a common Y DNA. Here is how they line up:
Presumed Levi DNA (mine alone for now) is at the bottom. The top is my match at FTDNA the second in line is the new Elmore and the third is my match from SMGF who shares a family tree paper trail ancestor with number 2.
Unfortunately only the SMGF and my FTDNA match have more than 12 markers to look at. Even so, though I think you can see the pattern. Elmer 1 and 3 do have further markers that only mismatch by 1. Any STR can change at any time, so number 2 appears to have a difference on DYS393, but the rest of the markers are dead on. I've seen this level of difference among Damerons that are obviously related. I do wish there were more markers to compare, but you get what you get, and this is a great find.
The markers number 2 shows are indicative of our Z14 cluster at a really basic level, which is great, and those three 11s in a row is one of the hallmarks I look for in all my matches. It's a bikini haplotype though (12 marker matches are much more common than 25 or 37) and they can be misleading, still the pattern seems clear and worth further inspection.
At the very least, I have three Elmers that appear to be related, two of whom have intersecting family trees and a common patriarch. To me, that would be evidence that Number 1 Elmer is definitely from the English Elmer line that 2 and 3 are from. With their further matches also being southeast English (as are ours), I think these Elmers are pretty well sorted out, barring some amazing new information coming from Switzerland or Germany.
The thing for the Elmers to do now would be to recruit other known Elmers from this family and have them Y tested as well.
The same plan I need to follow with my Thompsons.
Although I have two Elmers that I match very well with, only one had a tree that would reach far enough back to give us a rough European origin.
Recently though, my Elmer contact found the tree of an Elmore from the Elmore DNA project that also reaches back to the same Edward Elmer who is a founder of Hartford Connecticut. Of course then, the thing to look for is a common Y DNA. Here is how they line up:
Presumed Levi DNA (mine alone for now) is at the bottom. The top is my match at FTDNA the second in line is the new Elmore and the third is my match from SMGF who shares a family tree paper trail ancestor with number 2.
Unfortunately only the SMGF and my FTDNA match have more than 12 markers to look at. Even so, though I think you can see the pattern. Elmer 1 and 3 do have further markers that only mismatch by 1. Any STR can change at any time, so number 2 appears to have a difference on DYS393, but the rest of the markers are dead on. I've seen this level of difference among Damerons that are obviously related. I do wish there were more markers to compare, but you get what you get, and this is a great find.
The markers number 2 shows are indicative of our Z14 cluster at a really basic level, which is great, and those three 11s in a row is one of the hallmarks I look for in all my matches. It's a bikini haplotype though (12 marker matches are much more common than 25 or 37) and they can be misleading, still the pattern seems clear and worth further inspection.
At the very least, I have three Elmers that appear to be related, two of whom have intersecting family trees and a common patriarch. To me, that would be evidence that Number 1 Elmer is definitely from the English Elmer line that 2 and 3 are from. With their further matches also being southeast English (as are ours), I think these Elmers are pretty well sorted out, barring some amazing new information coming from Switzerland or Germany.
The thing for the Elmers to do now would be to recruit other known Elmers from this family and have them Y tested as well.
The same plan I need to follow with my Thompsons.
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